Interview with the former Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

— We met for an interview on February 23, 2022, the day before the Russians’ full-scale military attack on Ukraine. And even the published later, already in May 2022, answers to my questions were relevant, and your predictions about the security of our state came true. In your opinion, the reasons for the attack announced by the Russians today can be perceived as such?

— At the beginning of the Russian troops’ invasion in Ukraine, media of the Russian Federation, citing V. Putin, actively used his theses about the reasons for such an “action”. There were talks about “denazification”, and about “defascistization”, and about the alleged protection of the Russian-speaking population, about the liberation of historically Russian territories. They also spoke about the aggressiveness of the Kyiv authorities against the Russian Federation, about the alleged bombing of civilians in the Donbas by Kyiv, and even some religious claims were made. But today, as we see, the Kremlin is not able to explain to the population of the Russian Federation the essence of those statements. It is quite obvious to us that the Kremlin is trying to destroy Ukrainian people as a subject of civilization, with our language, culture, and ultimately seize the territory of Ukraine. Putin even denies the very existence of the Ukrainian people and the Ukrainian state! I do not want to use the term “Russia” (Rus), better to say “the RF”, but not “Rusychi”. Because the name Rus comes from Kyivan Rus. In short, the reasons for the invasion are far-fetched and criminal, condemned by the peoples of the world, and the perpetrators of the invasion deserved to be punished.

— If we characterize current events in Ukraine now, then, in your opinion, in what words?

— Current events in Ukraine today are called the liberation Patriotic War against the Moscow invasion. As we see, the war has united the Ukrainian people, the Ukrainian nation and finally detached us from Muscovy, making Ukraine a subject of world politics and at the same time raising the question of preserving the global peace. Perhaps the Lord reasoned the aggressor to raise Ukraine and its people in this way! Special attention should be paid to the priceless assistance to Ukraine from the United States, the United Kingdom, the European Union and many countries of the world. In fact, since the Second World War, this is the first case of such a collective action against the aggressor.

— Now the fighting continues in our south, where the enemy is trying to seize our settlements. What do you think prevails here: the Russians’ desire in this way to demonstrate at least some successes, or are those districts and cities really strategically important?

— I will tell you as a former military: from the very beginning of the invasion of Ukraine, the enemy could not help but surprise with its logic of hostilities. I mean its primary task: to create a land corridor from the territory of the Russian Federation to the Crimean Peninsula and reach the administrative borders of Donetsk and Luhansk regions. And after a year of fighting, it has huge losses of personnel, military equipment, and it did not fulfill the primary task…

It cannot demonstrate anything victorious and boast of anything! Significant success on the battlefield was not achieved, mainly due to the weak leadership of the Russian military units, the low level of training and provision of troops and the obvious technological backwardness in armament. Its attempts to seize some cities of Luhansk and Donetsk regions have no strategic significance. Unless it seeks to own the territories that the Russian Federation had as of February 24, 2022. The defeat of the enemy in the south will mark the strategic defeat of the Russian Federation in the war with Ukraine, after which it is not difficult to predict major changes at the world level. But then, the main goal of the Kremlin is not without the help of the so-called partners and allies to force us to cede a certain territory of Ukraine.

— We strive to return the territories seized by the Russians, which were identified as Ukrainian in 1991. Is it the matter of the principle, or is there more to it?

— Preserving the integrity of Ukraine’s territory within the borders recognized by the world community is a fundamental issue. The leadership of our state is being attacked and will continue to be attacked by Russian lobbyists, who exist both in Europe and in the United States. President Volodymyr Zelenskyi has to hold the blow.

— The reasons for our requests to the West to provide us with weapons and military equipment are quite prosaic. But these reasons are a consequence of what?

— Ukraine’s war with Russia is not regional. This is a world-level war (God forbid its developing into a global confrontation with the use of nuclear weapons). The world community finally woke up, because it immediately began to realize all the threats coming from Russia, first of all — to Europe. Only our Ukrainian people are able to stop this invasion, but only with the support from Europe and other leading states. And this is the only way Europe can count on a calm and peaceful future. Since Ukraine is at the forefront of the struggle for peace and territorial integrity within the borders recognized by the world community, this is the reason for supporting Ukraine and our Armed Forces and providing assistance to our citizens.

— Now no one remembers how in the 1990s there was a discussion at the highest level about the movement of rifle and artillery munitions from military warehouses in Transdniestria to Russia through the territory of Ukraine. The discussion stopped on the fact that it is very dangerous, in particular for our railway. Can such decisions be considered harbingers of the current war? And who should be responsible for the fault?

— The 14^th Army of the USSR Armed Forces, stationed in Transdniestria, became part of the Russian Armed Forces. Those are the troops that contributed to the separation of Tiraspol from Chisinau. Only by covering your ears and eyes could one not see or hear about the destabilizing military force in that region. The fact that Ukraine at that time did not give consent to the export of munitions from Transdniestria is a consequence of the agreements between the Presidents of the Russian Federation and Ukraine. But as for the explanation of the reason for the ban on transportation due to the danger to the Ukrainian territory, I believe that it was invented to cover other plans.

— The Russian-Ukrainian war practically does not leave the media space, but on the both sides of the front line, events are presented differently. I understand that it cannot be otherwise, but at whom is this information struggle aimed? How should such news be perceived? And do we have a need to correct them when we can face accusations of trying to restrict freedom of speech?

— Events in Ukraine, at the front, assistance to the Armed Forces of Ukraine and our refugees are commented on in the media in different ways. Obviously, the real picture of events is being silenced in the Russian Federation, the effectiveness of sanctions against the Russian Federation is denied, the actions of its troops are highlighted as victorious, the Russians’ losses on the battlefield are considered insignificant. The Kremlin denies the crimes committed by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. More objective information is sometimes presented in Western media. As for the media of Ukraine, they generally objectively report on events at the front. There is enough information, it is determined by the list of radio and TV programs. The losses of the enemy and the victorious actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are presented for analysis and comparison with the information of the Western media. But! Often (and this is true!) the behavior of our presenters on the radio and TV channels cannot help causing outrage. This refers to ill-conceived information in their programs, which, I believe, is used by the enemy to justify its criminal actions.

Without denying the important role of freedom of speech, we must still remember that during the war it is necessary to monitor the informative space. Before making something public, one needs to think carefully, because the enemy always listens attentively, analyzes the heard and draws conclusions. For example, how many weapons are supplied to us; their modifications; what the number of personnel is and its further actions; names of commanders, brigade numbers, even chevrons on the uniform; the date of arrival of reserves or the number of servicemen who are trained abroad, etc. Any of the servicemen can confirm without hesitation that the publication of such information does not do good to the defense of Ukraine.

— A question to a professional military man who had complete military information: why the number, for example, of personnel participating in the war is published by civilian media?

— The war has divided our society into defenders of Ukraine, its enemies, traitors and the indifferent to the fate of the Ukrainian people. We know about a significant number of enemies from the 5^th column (they were usually in high positions). Remember, Hryhorii Skovoroda once said, that half of the Ukrainian people are talented people, but all the rest are traitors or the indifferent. The latter work for the enemy, some consciously, others for a fee. We must take care of our Armed Forces and Ukraine, including in the information space where the war continues, in terms of tension, no less than on the real front. The word can also kill. The appearance in the media of the topic about the need of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for equipment, weapons and ammunition for further hostilities, to put it mildly, is a fool’s errand. Such statements by officials are unacceptable, such information should in no case be submitted for consideration in the media. In my opinion, this openness is due to the requests of the Ukrainian side to our partners, who, despite their military ethics, have published our appeals for help to their voters, to their people. This can be the case when communicating with foreign journalists who are also aware of our needs.

— In your opinion, in what can Russia have an advantage now?

— Russia’s invasion of Ukraine highlighted many problems of preparing the parties and their armed forces for war. First of all, I mean people, their attitude and motivation. In this, the Russian Federation loses. It is impossible to justify the war started by the Kremlin, including in the eyes of a Russian citizen, regardless of what he says about his “Russian patriotism”. The world has condemned the war, the criminal actions of the Russian Federation have been recognized by the UN with the tangible support of the majority of states. Ukraine has been given unprecedented support, which the Kremlin did not expect. The war demonstrates the Russian army’s lagging behind technically and technologically. I mean both counter-battery radars, and long range precision guided munitions. As for Russian air defense, missile forces and artillery, although they are recognized as archaic (except for “Kinzhal” missiles), they are quite effective. The Russian Navy in the Black Sea is also ineffective. Troop management, communications and logistics need significant improvement. But the electronic warfare systems are still reliable.

I will not compare the forces and means of struggle of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with Western models, because they are still Soviet. But I will say that we have not managed to use our scientific and technical potential and establish the work of our own defense industry. For 30 years of state independence, we have become completely dependent on supplies of weapons and military equipment from our partners. Even what was inherited from the Soviet Union was sold and destroyed, including with active assistance… of the Russian Federation and even with the interest of some Ukrainian officials.

If we talk about the RF’s superiority in the war with Ukraine in general, it is mainly a human resource, which is leveled by the weapons support and heroism of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

— In May 2022, one of the representatives of the Office of the President published the amount of military equipment required by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to defeat the Russian attacker — at least 300 long-range missile systems, 500 tanks, 1000 large-caliber howitzers and drones, etc. Even so, will the enemy wait for the West to provide us with everything we need?

— Ukraine enjoys the incredible support of its partners in the fight against the aggressor. Not only moral, financial, but also military. First of all, I mean heavy military equipment and weapons. The decision to support was not easy, for example, for the leaders of Germany and France. After all, a significant number of politicians have been oriented to the Russian Federation for decades. And some officials in the West were recruited or bribed by Moscow. Today, tanks and combat vehicles, artillery and air defense systems from partners form the basis of the combat potential of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. We have been promised that the assistance will be give for as long as it takes, to our complete victory.

— Will the heavy weapons promised by the West, have a tangible impact on the hostilities? Will its technical advantage be enough for us to actually defeat the enemy?

— When comparing individual Western and Russian tanks on the battlefield, one should bear in mind not only the range of a direct shot of a tank gun, but also a target detection system, loading speed and that of a repeated shot. But all the technical advantages of modern tanks will be nullified if the crew is poorly trained. No need to belittle the capabilities of our T-72s. If we have competent tactics, we will timely identify targets at a distance of up to 900 m, our crew will be confident in their actions, then the outcome of the battle will be worthy. A well-known axiom: victory in battle is achieved by well-trained and armed people. Conversely, without modern weapons, the best people and patriots of their people will die on the battlefield…

— Military training of the conscripts is so important that even civilians understand it. How long does it really take?

— Training of a military specialist takes place in specialized training units. During the selection for such training, not only the candidate’s personal desire, but also his capability should be taken into account. The duration of such training depends on the acquired skills to use equipment and weapons. Given the experience in training such specialists, the training should last six to nine months. But in wartime, this time decreases significantly.

— If we compare Russian-Ukrainian with other “modern” wars, such as the eight-year Iranian-Iraqi war, how long can it last? NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg once pointed out that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine could last at least two years.

— Russia’s war with Ukraine is not a surprise. The whole history of our relations with our neighbor testifies to its desire to seize not only the territory of Ukraine with its natural resources, but also to conquer our freedom-loving people. How can such perseverance of Russians be explained? Once the Kaiser of Germany explained this: in order to weaken Russia, it is necessary to detach Ukraine from it. That is, we are a decisive force, without which Russia cannot exist, because it will quickly be destroyed. And the long-awaited revival of “great Russia” without Ukraine is unlikely to happen. Therefore, such a “neighborly” confrontation is forever.

…And the military defeat of the Russian Federation is expected in mid-2023, which I do not want to deny. Understand, a theater of war is not a drama theater, although not everyone understands this. And if on the battlefield the events become dramatic, then they do not end with the lowering of the curtain and loud applause. The consequences of war are always painful. Even if they are victorious.

— If you listen to what the Russians are now saying about the reason for their invasion — NATO’s approach to their borders — it turns out that they attacked Ukraine solely out of fear. That is, they indirectly realize that their military mighty after a while will be, to put it mildly, rather doubtful. But it seems to me that there is another “factor” here: true Ukrainians do not serve in their army anymore, as they did in the tsarist or Soviet army…

— Obviously, Ukraine’s choice of its European future did not please the haughty Kremlin. A series of events took place in Ukraine, thanks to which our people could have been returned to the Moscow stall. It didn’t happen, it couldn’t! And the powerful 5^th column could not do anything for this. To capture Ukraine peacefully became problematic. Traitors used large funds to bribe the authorities, but to no avail. Russia began to hope for an aging fed Europe, for its indirect support for a “special operation” in Ukraine. But when our people destroyed the plans of the Russian Federation with their heroism, Europe also had to wake up and react to the actions of the Russian aggressor. Today, Europe is no longer against Ukraine’s presence in NATO. Because it realized that only we can give a decent response to the aggression of our neighbor. The Russians’ fear that Ukraine would strengthen NATO, instead of Russia, as it had been for several centuries, was the reason for the invasion of Ukraine.

— Let’s imagine for a moment that the Russians had to deal with the modern US army, whose technical superiority is ten times more efficient than today’s in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Would they have been able to advance so persistently?

— I will answer this way: Russian army has always studied a potential adversary. Such for them were the armies of the NATO bloc, including the US Armed Forces. The US military are known to Russian officers for their actions in hot spots on the planet. The Russians meticulously study their warfare experience, draw appropriate conclusions, which are necessarily taken into account in their training process.

As for the number of US Armed Forces, it is not too big. The power of the US military is based on the space component, strategic nuclear forces, aviation, navy, marines, amphibious forces, intelligence, electronic warfare and a well-established logistics and combat support. Their mighty is supported by a powerful military-industrial base and a huge US military budget. But modeling the possible clashes of US and Russian military in some conditional territory, it would be difficult to determine the winner only in terms of quality in weapons and equipment. Because people achieve victory due to their motivation. The motivation of the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is at the heart of their heroic actions to defend their people and their land. While the Rascists are invaders, looters and rapists. Their motivation lies in the impoverished payment for a criminal invasion of foreign territory. So we have to win.

— But we have heard more than once that the Russians were confident in themselves during the war in Syria. Did they not overestimate their capabilities, which caused their failures in Ukraine?

— Russia intervenes in military conflicts on all continents, using private military companies (PMCs), which are equipped with the best samples of weapons and military equipment. And all in order to earn money on the blood of people in hot spots. If we consider the events in Syria, they were not a serious test for PMC Wagner compared to Ukraine. The military leadership of the Russian Federation overestimated the capabilities of the “the world’s second army” and private military companies. And political strife and corruption in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, neglect of a person on the battlefield will lead to the defeat of Russians in Ukraine.

— It is interesting to hear your subjective opinion: what is the reason for the Russians’ nature? Of course, taking into consideration your many years of military experience.

— We must bear in mind that the mentality of Russians lies in the age-old respect for the authorities and obedience to force. A slave who has been humiliated is more cruel to the weaker. He is able to skin him in order to rise in his own eyes. It is not for nothing that the Russians were assigned the name “katsap”, which means “butcher” from the Turkic language. Another thing: Russians do not trust their eyes and their hearts, but believe the word of propaganda. I personally had a chance to see this, honestly, back in the Soviet army, where all the units were international. The servicemen who came from Ukraine were most respected. There was a joke about them — “A khokhol (nickname of Ukrainians — Transl.) without a badge of rank, is like a ladle without a handle”. There was no supremacy in the behavior of the Russians, because this was not perceived in military units. But then, there were some cases of contempt for subordinates, “hazing” took place not only among Russians, but also among soldiers of other nationalities. For me, the nationality of a soldier has never been decisive. The main thing is what he was in the team, whether he studied military arts thoroughly.

— How do you assess the younger generation of military leaders of Ukraine compared to you? What is inherent in them?

— The Armed Forces of Ukraine are in battles today. On the line of contact with the aggressor in the fields, in the air and at sea, the servicemen of the Defense Forces of Ukraine are doing the possible and impossible on their way to victory. Great respect to our defenders. I honor each of them and pay tribute to the officers. I am indignant when I learn about the shameful behavior of individual officials, about careless providing units with the necessary ammunition and material means. I cannot understand the tolerance of the state leadership towards thieves and traitors. The war gives an assessment to each leader in the Armed Forces. I rejoice when high officials of partner countries give a good assessment to our Generals. These are historical figures, many generations of Ukrainians will remember their legacy.

— Is it worth predicting further developments at the front now?

— The fight against the aggressor is in full swing, I confidently predict the victory of Ukraine. Planning of operations is entrusted to the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and its Commanders. We wish them good luck and health, as well as all our defenders of Ukraine.

— You recently signed and gave to me as a gift your book “Milestones of the Turbulent Events of 2013–2022”. For which I am very grateful and, I admit, I wrote a review for one of the military magazines. What motivated you to write it?

— What motivated? Deep awareness of the problems faced by the people of Ukraine in our turbulent times, and the desire to involve a wide readership in realizing the importance of the Defense Forces in defending the independence of our country and our people. I also tried to show the role of the individual in performing state tasks, to highlight mistakes in the field of defense and personnel policy. Without the creative help of my colleagues and friends, this work would have taken more than one year. I am grateful to Volodymyr Raievskyi, Yurii Yarukhin and the editorial board of the “Military Intelligence” Publishing House for their effective assistance in this creative work.

— Judging by its content, there is a need to record such events step by step. Similar books were published by other authors. Can this be taken as an attempt to use such publications in the case of the future international criminal trial of the aggressor country and its officials?

— With the book “Milestones of the Turbulent Events of 2013–2022”, I strived to convey to readers a sense of danger in the society that has arisen to fight for its choice — the European path of development.

The information is true and can serve the reader in his educational and practical activities. It will be useful in the case of making appropriate decisions of the criminal court, which should take place when summing up the results of the cruel events of this time. The book “Invasion-2022 — the RF’s War Against Ukraine” was also published, which provides step-by-step information on the authorities’ activities in foreign relations with partner countries, internal problems and summary information of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine regarding events at the front. Interesting are the decisions on awarding our soldiers by the President of Ukraine, about meetings of delegations of our partners and analysis of the course of hostilities.

Recorded by Oleh Makhno

The full interview you can read in the
“BINTEL” Geopolitical Analytics Journal, Issue 1–2, 2023